This a Continuation of the trail bike build suggestions in answer to Steve. Steve submitted a build request to "Bob Builds Bikes'. I thought it would be helpful to post my answer to the world as I am sure many people wonder about this kind of thing.

What should we talk about next? I think the next subject should be wheels and brakes.

First lets discuss brakes. 29eronline specs Shimano SLX brakes on the test rigs. I have been a long time supporter of Shimano Brakes. My affection started out with Shimano four piston XT brakes that came out in about the year 2000. they have since improved the design of course.

Why I like Shimano? They are easy to bleed. They use mineral oil, which is pretty harmless stuff if it gets on you or on your bike. This is as opposed to DOT fluid which can burn your skin, ruin the finish on your bike and is environmentally not good. Shimano brakes offer plenty of power and excellent modulation. they are easy to align when you install them. Last but not least they are pretty affordable and easy to get parts for. I would say if you are traveling, almost any bike shop will have brake pads and be able to service these brakes.

The cons? They are heavy. That is the only con I can think of.

I have a set of Formula R1 brakes and have ridden Magura Marta SL brakes for  a couple of years. Both of these brakes perform well. They are both light. They are both very expensive. They are both more expensive to maintain. The Formula R1 brakes will be harder to find parts for. I recently snapped a bolt in the Formula R1 brake levers. I had to send the whole brake back to Formula to get a new master cylinder. Formula had excellent customer service and fortunately had what I needed to fix my brakes. The retail of this would be well over $130. For that much money I could buy a complete Shimano brake set! Needless to say I went to the hardware store and bought 4 steel bolts and replaced the pretty anodized red ones that were sent with the brakes. The Marta Brakes are excellent feeling and I really like them. I did snap one of the carbon levers. If this ever happens to you read the directions on how to change the levers. I did not. Evidently doing it wrong can screw up the brake. Again the cost of the brake lever assembly cost about what an SLX brake set(front or rear) can be bought for online. Plus this was a special order item. It took a week to fix.

Long story short. The high end brakes work well but are harder to service unless you go to a well equipped shop that keeps the small parts in stock. It is also debatable that they work better then Shimano  brakes that cost half the amount. If you don't mind a little bit of pork the Shimano's are hard to beat. I don't have much to say about Avid except I have little experience with them. I have had  a couple of warranty items from them recently and I finally gave up trying to get the warranty's taken care of. I am not sure if Shimano is any better which is another topic all together.

As far as rotors go. We use 180mm Front and 160mm in the rear. If I had to do it over I would do 180mm front and rear. This seems to be plenty of rotor for XC and trail use in most locations I have been in. I went through a 200mm rotor phase but feel it is really overkill for most riders needs. Take it for what it is, just an opinion.

Wheels: This topic is huge! I can not possibly cover it all. I guess we can talk about custom hand built and pre-built. A pre built wheel to me is a wheel set that has been factory built as a dedicated wheelset. Typically they require special proprietary parts. The problem with these types of wheels is that typically it is harder to get them serviced. The parts  usually have to be ordered directly through the company. The spoke gauge and strength is  picked for a "standard" weight range and and a dedicated purpose. This is where  type casting riders comes in. Do you ride all mountain? Cross country? Enduro? Freeride? Light freeride"? Aggressive all mountain? Light all mountain? Aggressive trail? Down Hill? Who Knows!  I guess all of us ride trail. So trail bike it is.

Typically I use the marketing type casting to pair a wheel set to a rider weight and riding style. If you have a 250 LBS rider that likes to jump every indentation in the trail or lives for rock gardens stay away from wheels that advertise light. This is where "all mountain" wheels come into play. If the 250 LBS rider loves rock gardens and brags about all the parts he breaks then this is where a custom wheel set comes onto play.

Alternatively if I hear of a light rider that wants a wheelset that can handle "trail riding" and admits to being a little timid I want him on a fairly light wheelset. Donn O is about 150LBS. He runs Stans 355  rims, light spokes, alloy nipples and DT-240s hubs,rides aggressively and does not have wheel problems.

I am 215 LBS and rode a similar wheel set and hated the flex.

Basically a custom wheel set can and should be specifically designed and built by some one familiar with the terrain that you ride and is willing to listen to your needs and wants and come up with the best compromise. There is no easy way to do this and no generic answer.

The dedicated wheel sets have their place. They are typically loaded with technology. Also bang for the buck you usually get that technology for a very competitive price. As far as budget wheels bang for the buck there are some killer looking wheels on the market. I have no recommendations as I have not ridden any for any length of time.

Yes I know this wheel information is vague. I would love to test dedicated wheelsets and give our feed back  when we get them we will post and tell you who would get the most out of any given wheelset.

What about Carbon rims? Again we have not ridden any so have nothing to add. Does if freak me out? YES! would I try them. YES!  They offer a lot of promise but to me need to be proven by someone who is not sponsored by the company. I will not throw my money at them. Before I get some comment by a carbon zealot I know that Steve Peat races them Down Hill on the world cup circuit. I dont care. He gets free wheels any time he wants. It only has to make it down the hill one time. In defense of carbon wheels, under Steve Peat aluminium wheels wont hold up either. I would test them if a company sent them to me. Does any body want to know about carbon rims? If so I will see if I can get set.

Another big Con of carbon wheels is that if they do break it will cost a small fortune to replace. If I destroy a Stan's rim it will cost $85 to scrap it and $35 or so to get it rebuilt plus max $60 for spokes. Those would be some expensive spokes. So total $180.  Do that to a carbon rim! You still need to buy spokes and pay labor plus $850 for a Edge Composite rim!   The edge rims are 450 grams and Stan's Flow rims weigh 470 grams(claimed)  If the Edge rims puke do you want to pay $850 to replace one of them? Will they fail?  Who knows? We will see in a few years and at those prices I will want to have them on my bike for a few years.

So there are pro's and cons to factory built and hand built. at this point as long as you maintain either set, check your air pressure in your tires, use adequate air pressure in your tires(protects your rims) you should be able to get good service out of either type.

My name is Henry and I ride a couple times a week and on weekends I like to ride for several hours at a time. I prefer single track, cross country riding. I also ride a Fuji cycle-cross bike for road rides, dirt roads, horse trails and for long endurance rides. In the past, I worked at a bike shop (Storm Endurance Sports) so I have ridden many kinds of bikes. For the past several years, I have ridden a Tomac Taos hard-tail. This past summer I purchased a Santa Cruz Blur LT. The change was tremendous.  I had ridden full suspensions in the past but the Blur out performed them all. My lap times at the local single track (6.5 miles) went from the high 40’s to 42 minutes. I was able to ride longer and faster. Boy was I happy.

One evening at Governors Creeks MTB, not long after buying the Blur, I ran into FatBob who was setting up several 29ers for test riding. I had seen 29ers around but never ridden one. FatBob asked if I would like to try out a Rip 9 (Ride in Peace 9) from Niner Bikes. Not wanting to overdo it, I rode it for just a mile or so.

When I got back to the parking lot Don O was there. We decided to test the 29ers a full lap around. My riding buddy was on his Trek Carbon Fuel (26er) and is typically faster than I am. Don was testing a Specialized Stumpjumer FSR 29 and FatBob setup a Pivot Mach 429 for me. Another friend was testing out the Rip 9. The first thing I notice was how well the Mach 429 rolled over everything. I had always assumed the larger wheels would require more effort to get rolling. But even climbing seemed faster and required less effort.

My buddy on the Trek seemed to be falling back. Don was having a little trouble getting use to the Stumpjumper 29. Even so, he was pretty fast. I was able to stay with Don fairly easily (which I never do). My Trek buddy was way back. For the first time all year, I had to stop and wait on him. Man I was loving this.

FatBob had ridden out ahead of us to take some pictures and shoot some video. At some point, we rode past FatBob and I yelled “Man this is like driving a sports car for the first time”. Log crossing, rock sections, switch backs, the Pivot was out performing the Blur. I could not believe it. What was I going to do? After all  I had just purchased the last mountain bike I was ever going to buy!

After the ride, FatBob explained the suspension systems of the Pivot and the Niner. I thought the Niner was a softer plusher ride having 110mm of rear travel and 120mm front. The Pivot has 100mm of travel and much firmer making it a little quicker handling and giving it a racier feel. He explained that the large diameter wheels roll on top of obstacles instead of into them. I also noticed that the front tire seemed to bite in better during fast, high speed turns. It was better than I had ever felt. The 29ers just simple climbs better, descends better, corners and accelerates better than any 26 inch wheeled bike I have ridden. Hands Down!

Back to my dilemma. What was going to do about my brand new Blur LT. How was I going to explain to my wife that I was getting rid of my new bike and getting a newer one. It took me a few weeks but I decided to sell my Blur and buy a Rip 9. I chose the Rip9 because of the plusher feel and the 120mm of travel. Niner is also a company that builds and sells only 29ers. They believe in 29ers and development of what they call “The Big Revolution”. When I talked to Charlie (Storm Endurance Sports) about buying a Niner, he said they had a special deal that included a Fox RL with a frame purchase. He said Niner often offered incentives to customers. Well that was it. I’d strip down my Blur, sell the frame, fork and wheelset and buy the Rip9. If only Niner came in lime green so my wife wouldn’t notice I had a new bike.

Since I have been without a bike between the Blur and the Rip9, FatBob was nice enough to let me ride one of his test bikes, a WFO 9 (Wide Full Open) also from Niner. It is a 140mm travel bike (same as the Blur LT) that looks like a beast. My first impression was this bike is going to be “a tank”. FatBob has the bike set up pretty heavy with X9 shifters and derailleurs , SLX Brakes and SLX cranks (great cranks and even better brakes) a Crank Brothers Joplin seatpost. Most of the weight being in the tires. The wheels are Stans ZTR Flow rims with a 15mm front axle , 12mm rear and 14/15 gauge DT Swiss spokes. They are great wheels but the build combined with the Panaracer Rampage 29 tires added weight to the bomber yet heavy wheelset.

The first thing I noticed was the speed on the downhills. The WFO just rode on top of the terrain. The suspension soaked up ever root, rock and washout. I could just steer the bike where I wanted. After a while I was looking for rough parts of the trail just to see if I could feel anything.

I was sure that the climbs would be a different story. Once I found a climb that the WFO’s momentum hadn’t carried me halfway up, I could not believe it. It was climbing every bit as good as the Blur. Once again, the 29 inch wheels covered more ground so climbing was easier.

The only time the bike seemed a little heavy was on long flat sections of the trail. However, the WFO 9 is classified as an All mountain, Enduro bike so feeling a little heavy is normal. This ride just reassured me that I had made the right decision in buying a Niner.

As of now, I do not have my RIP 9 ready to ride. I am waiting on a few parts to finish the build and I will be off. After my Blur sold, I did tell my wife about my new bike. Like so many times before, she said that was great and she hoped I will Love my new bike. When she saw the Rip 9 frame, she even said it was the “Prettiest” bike I have ever owned. And I agree. It is Beautiful. Thanks again to FatBob for expanding my world to 29ers and “The Big Revolution”. FatBob has also quietly made riding more enjoyable around here by spending countless hours doing trail work and  course design that no one knows about. To that I am all so very grateful. Go out and test ride a 29er. You’ll be happy you did.

HD

EDIT: Since this has been written, Henry has been riding his RIP9. He has been raving about it! One more convert.

The Lenz in it's current set up. Holly's bike has dt240/stans 355 wheels/and Titec Pluto bars. She also likes the Schwable Racing Ralph tires.

Okay, so this is my official,(well as official as it can be from someone who really isn't a gear head, and who probably knows moreabout that actual color of my bike than what parts are on it.) NEVERTHELESS, this is my review of my personal 29er as opposed to the 26er that I "grew up on"!! That would be about a year ago, by the way.

Actually, I've always had 26ers. My first experience with a 29er was on a Willit's "new sheriff", in Crested Butte,Colorado,2001.

A couple months ago, my obsessive, gear head of a husband decided I had outgrown my Fuji and got me a new bike. I should divulge that I was fighting it all the way. "I'm really fast on this bike, I don't care WHAT I ride, I just want to ride, No It's too expensive.......bla bla bla.....to no avail.

I now am the proud.....and might I say, still fast owner of a rockin' LENZ Leviathan.(it's pink......and a little silver, oh, and some black...can you tell I'm a girl?)

Holly's Lenz Leviathan, fit for a 5'4" rider.

Well, let me just say this bike is awesome. The only way to describe it without getting too technical for you newbee's out there is that I can definitely feel a big difference with the bigger wheels.

Holly riding her Lenz in the Xterra Uwharrie race sponsored by Middle Ring Cycles

When I first rode it, I realized I had really outgrown my 26er. Oh, yeah, I'm 5'4". (thin, buff, and rediculously good looking ) but enough about me, back to the bike. What I really notice about this bike is that it feels really capable. I have a ton of traction even in the muddiest conditions(including wet,hot horse manure at Uwharrie :  ).

The bigger tires definitely give me more confidence to mow over things, and although it does feel alot bigger, it climbs really well. In a way it almost feels like you're riding on stilts, but I really like that. I feel like I have a ton of bike.

It reminds me of the difference between driving a nissan sentra(drives great, great car for the money, reliable, etc....as opposed to driving maybe a really cool, jacked up, pimped out jeep with huge tires, a roll bar and a snorkel. You feel, tougher, stronger, more confident and you have way more fun. Speaking from experience, I 've had a nissan sentra. It was a great car, but I've moved on.

So, basically, this review is quite unofficial, but I love the feel and the ride of the 29er, and I must admit, my husband was right when he said "just wait til you ride it, you'll be glad I got it for you". Actually, what he really said was "How many husbands have to beg Their WIFE to let them buy Their WIFE a really expensive gift?"

I LOVE MY 29ER. I have always loved the really fast downhills and this bike definitely handles well, grips well, and gives me alot more confidence on the downhill then my 26 in. Fuji.

Unfortunately, girls, this is as technical as I get. I love mountain biking and I love this bike. I will admit, as a kid, I would ride whatever bike a neighbor kid would let me borrow, so I'm not nearly as picky, technical or obsessive over details as my husband, but now that I have the bike, I can see and feel where all those details make a difference.

Holly's real passion, this little guy is being ditched by his owners. They are literally chaining him up, giving him food and driving away. Oh yeah today they hit him with thier car and he's limping around. If anyone knows of a good home for(ironically) "Lucky" and lives in the state of NC we can arange for you to meet him. In the mean time he will be seeing a doctor and Animal Advocates will be helping him out.

By: Holly

What an eventful week. I went to meet Charlie Storm at San-Lee park to photo him riding the Ventana El-Rey. We were going to meet in the rock garden we test our bikes in. To my surprise I saw him walking towards me.

Evidently he exploded a Sram X-9 rear derailleur. He was riding a different rock garden in the Big Ring and the x-9 spontaneously combusted. The net result was a chain reaction of severed and bent parts.

The rear derailleur caused the derailleur hanger to break(good), unfortunately not before the rear chain stay of the Ventana El-Rey bent.

The only thing I can fault Ventana with is that the derailleur hanger should have broke before the chain stay bent, not after. That's why you have a disposable derailleur hanger in the first place. Truly though Ventana is handling this in a fair manner. One nice thing about the Ventana is that since the rear end is not one piece you can replace small parts of it. Instead of having to replace the whole rear end we only have to replace the chain stay.This saves us quite a bit of money.

So thanks to Sram we not only have down time but are forking over some hard earned Cash. I guess that's the price of passion.

By: DONN OTTE

On my last article I remarked on how the Pivot niner felt like it took less effort to pedal than my Litespeed sixer. So today while I got to stay home with my sweet 3 year old granddaughter I decided to test this theory. 

How would the Mythbusters do it?  Well I have a nice concrete driveway and side walk available so that became my test track.  I used a slightly down hill section on my driveway that was about 30’ long which entered my nearly level side walk which ends in a very slight uphill grade. 

I tried a few test runs on the Pivot Mach 429, in which I started from a marked point on the driveway with just the slightest of push offs and the Pivot 429 managed to coast about 75’ before it stopped.  I then broke out every bike I had in my garage to challenge the Pivot mach 429. 

First I tried my Litespeed Niota full suspension sixer – it went only 65 feet, 10 feet shorter that the Pivot a pretty big difference.  I then tried a light carbon Trek 9800 hardtail sixer which coasted an averaged 2 to 3 feet farther than the Niota but still 7’ short of the Pivot.  I made sure that all tires were inflated to 28 psi my normal pressure.  Here is where it gets interesting I broke out my Jamis Comet, a 17.5 lb road bike with the tires pumped up to 95 psi..

 The Comet accelerated quickly to 5.5 mph but when it hit the slight up hill grade it slowed down just as fast.  The road bike runs varied a little (approx 2’ feet) but get this the best the road bike could do was tie the niner, and most of the time, it fell about a foot short of the Pivot 29er.   I repeated all of these runs at least ten times, I found all of the mountain bikes rolled very consistently but the road bike varied. Some of this inconsistency I believe was due to aerodynamics – wind & body position - the Jarmis was just super sensitive.

Next I wondered if bike weight made a difference so I tried caring a 10 lb barbell weight on the handle bars on both the Niota and the Jarmis - try that some time, but the best I could tell the extra weight did not make a significant difference.

So the 29er Schwalbe Racing Ralph tires which we had on the Pivot429 roll as well as road bike tires (they are marketed as low rolling resistance tires) or 29er momentum beats the other bike sizes.  Maybe we can get some time on a NASA super computer and get to the bottom of this. 

bikes used for this experiment

By: Donn Otte

Donn Otte shows the contrast between his Litespeed Niota 26er and the Pivot Mach 429

First a little about me, I have been riding mountain bikes for 20 years and for the last 10 years I’ve been on full suspension bikes. I’m 5’6” tall and weigh in at 140 lbs. I design and build mountain bike trails and I even have managed to win a few mountain bike races.

To me riding the 29er is a no brainer for the bigger riders a big guy needs a big bike case closed.  Where this becomes more confused is with the shorter lighter riders – smaller rider = smaller bike - right?

Well part of what I wanted to do with this bike test was to shoot some video of our new Pivot mach 429 in action.  That plan evolved into a sixer against a niner shootout because I needed a bike to tote the camera so I volunteered my trusty Litespeed Niota, a high end, and light 26 lbs full suspension sixer to tote the rear facing GoPro video camera.  Using this sixer - niner combination we learned a lot about both bikes while shooting the video.  The ultra wide angle lens of the GoPro camera means you have to be close to shoot cool video.  Trying to tailgate the camera bike immediately highlighted the differences between the two bikes.

The sixer will accelerate like a rocket at the start of a down hill but as soon as the grade levels the sixer slows down just as fast.  My brother rides a niner and he has nicknamed it Old Moe for momentum, this trait was clearly apparent during the filming of our video.   The sixer would pull away at the start of the downhill but most of the time I would have to grab a handful of brakes to keep the Pivot Mach from running over the Niota as the ground went back to level.

Hill climbing is a different story with the advantage going to the Niota the niner has two strikes against it, weight & gearing.  The Pivot has considerable heft it’s a good 3.5 pounds heavier than the Niota; this is a big deal for the smaller rider who thinks in grams not pounds.  What further complicates climbing is the gearing, both bikes have the same gears but the Pivots larger diameter 29” tires makes it feel like it’s in overdrive.  I did an experiment to test the gearing – I marked off the distance each bike traveled with one turn of the crank when in the middle ring lowest gear, I found that the niner went a foot further than the sixer. I had to up shift the sixer one gear to match the niner distance.  After riding the niner it felt like there was a bigger gear difference that that – so the best I can figure you have to down shift the niner one more gear to counteract the weight penalty.  This is not to big of a deal with moderate climbing but in the mountains when you need your lowest granny gear to crawl up some steep slick rock what is doable on a sixer might mean some walking on a niner.  The up side of the gearing is higher gears force you to ride faster, my biggest success in racing came when I kept the old sixer in the big ring and hammered.

The saving grace of these draw backs is the sophisticated rear suspension which seams quite efficient with very little power robbing suspension bob.  I’m planning to do a follow up report on the inner workings of the Pivot’s suspension we will video the rear suspension in action and see how much bobbing actually goes on while climbing.

Now for the biggest surprise of the comparison, Ronnie my camera man I both agreed that there was a big difference in the rolling resistance between the two bikes – so big in fact that I thought there was something wrong with the Niota maybe the brakes were dragging or low tire pressure or something like that but everything checked normal. We switched bikes at regular intervals and it almost got to a point where we didn’t want to take our turn to ride the Niota.  The Niota is equipped with an almost new XT wheel set and high end tubeless tires but it seemed to be dragging compared to the Pivot.  The ease of pedaling the Pivot was remarkable, you read all the technical jargon about bigger tire foot print lower tire angle but the bottom line here is this 29er stuff actually works.  I could feel less strain on my legs when pedaling on everything but the up hills.  I’m not sure how to prove this greater efficiency, maybe I can a conduct a test to see how far the bike will coast or something like that.  Not only did the Pivot seem to roll easer but it rolled smoother too! The big tires flattened out the roots and rocks producing a very comfortable ride. This easier to pedal smooth riding bike allows for more time in the saddle with less strain & pain a very good thing.

First impressions of the Pivot Mach 429

This is a very comfortable bike to ride, you just think wow when you get on it / it just clicks / it has a low stand over height.  The suspension performed well on all the roots and rocks at San Lee Park.  The frame looks bomb proof it has a ton of intricate machining and welding / I like the reliability of having roller bearing at the pivot points not bushings like my Litespeed / the frame was heavy but super stiff with zero flex.  I did not feel any power robbing pedal bob in the rear suspension.  We were also taking a first look at the new Rock Shox Reba 29er front fork which felt plush to me and it was well matched to the rear suspension– unfortunately what I did noticed about the new fork was oil leaking from the fork seals we had a coating of dirt sticking to the oil after the test rides not a good start for a new product maybe the seals have to break in we will keep an eye on it and report back to you on it.  This bike is long, as is most 29ers; it barely fits in the bed of my short bed Tundra pickup truck.  29ers are big this makes them more difficult to transport that’s one thing my brother discovered when he got his niner they don’t fit on some of the bike racks so you might want to check that out if you already have an expensive rack.  One complaint I had with this bike was its low ground clearance – I scrapped more metal off the Pivots chain rings in San Lee Parks Free Fall rock section than I ever had with my Niota – what’s up with that, doesn’t bigger tires give you more ground clearance? I checked the bottom bracket height and they were within 1/4” of each other.  My best guess is when the plush Pivot suspension compresses the bike rides at a lower height hurting the ground clearance some of this might also be the result of the suspension set up for this bike which calls for more sag than the Niota.

Conclusion

Here I was happy as a lark on my Litespeed Niota sixer figuring that 29ers were only for the big guys now I am not so sure.

Pivot mach 429

I liked riding the Pivot no doubt about it. I can’t wait to put it through its paces on more of my favorite trails. This is not a race bike but for comfortably bulldozing down your local trail and leaving your buddies in the dust when you hit the rough stuff.  That’s what the “all mountain” type of bikes are all about - ride it longer and harder and do it again tomorrow.

Is the Pivot the best niner out there – I don’t know but I intend to find out stay tuned as I plan to do more head to head comparisons against the other niner’s I will try get you the answers you need to make the best choice.

Pro

Suspension / ride / handling / quality & craftsmanship

Con

Weight / gearing / low ground clearance

SIXER verses NINER

Sixer

Pro

Lighter weight / acceleration / climbing

Con

Rougher ride / less traction / less momentum

Niner

Pro

Smoother ride / more traction / lower rolling resistance / more momentum

Con

Weight / gearing / size – harder to transport

If I learned one thing in doing this test it was the importance of doing a direct comparison, this bike against that bike instead of depending on intuition.  Most of us never get a chance to ride a lot of different bikes and unless you own a bike shop you probably won’t. I am pleased that FatBob offered me a shot at testing bikes for 29eronline.com so stay tuned for more comprehensive head to head reviews – niner verses niner and lots of cool video too.  We have a long list of bikes to test.  Oh by the way niner’s can work for the lighter riders.

Editors Note: This is not yet an official 29eronline test as the Pivot did not have the Fox f29 rlc fork on it. Donn Otte will be testing The Mach 429 against other 29 inch wheel bikes with the official 29eronline test kit.

Also I have not given Donn the official rundown of what the manufacture says the bike is made for. I find it interesting that Donn views the Pivot as an all-mountain bike. Take note of this impression. It is the feel Donn got from riding the bike not reading about it.

What you just read is an unedited first impression of not only the Pivot but also 29ers in general. So this is a viewpoint that has not been swayed by a bunch of marketing. We are happy to have Donn on board and hope you enjoy all the years of experience, media and honesty that comes from Donn.