Donn O

Fat Bob said Donn you got to test tires –but dang I love my Racing Ralf’s please don’t make me switch tires.

I looked at the tires he gave me and I decided that maybe a little more aggressive tread on the back would help me claw up thru the big rocks on our local Jonesboro Fault Trail and stir up the sand better for an upcoming Florida trip so I put the Specialized “The Captain” on the back of my Niner RIP 9 and left my favored Racing Ralf on the front.

Captain control retains mud.

In my opinion there is nothing better that my Racing Ralf’s on dry hard pack clay soils.

When I switched to the Captain the first thing I noticed was the taller tread would skid easier under heavy braking when on the same dry hard pack trail.

The Captain side view photo by Donn O

On the plus side it did have more climbing traction in the loose stuff and would claw slightly better over the big rocks.

In the wet neither tire are great - both are prone to load up which I found out the hard way in Florida. I thought our North Carolina red clay was bad but I got into some sticky white clay down there and it totally clogged both tires to the point I had to stop and use a stick to scrape off the white crud so the tires would spin again.

We have built several miles of new trail this winter and this tire does a reasonable job on the soft wet new trail surface except for the occasional loading up problem.

We had a rare winter snow storm so I took this opportunity to do a tread impression in the new snow so you could visualize how the rubber actually connects to the trail.

I might have to get Fat Bob to spring for some extra thick frozen Margaritas so I can do this test in the summer. You can see a fairly continuous center block pattern with widely spaced side paddles – the side tread did not come into play even though I weighted the tire to make this impression. Overall I like this tire only wish it did not clog as bad.

Snow imprint. Photo:Donn O

Florida:

You got to be kidding right?  Mountain biking in the flattest state no way – yes, way cool! Thanks to a club called SWAMP and man made terrain left over from strip-mining. SWAMP has built a series of very technical trails in various parks built on reclaimed land.  These trails are built on hard white soil plied up from phosphate mining around the edge of flooded pits loaded with local wildlife – alligators / armadillos’ / wild pigs (very destructive) & lush tropical vegetation draped with Spanish moss.  These trails are all about abrupt transitions / super steep drops / tight single track / and innovated armoring and bridging – very tight and sketchy expert sections.

My favorite trails – Carter Road – Lakeland FL – the Fingers are 5 narrow steep piles of dirt jutting well out into an old flooded quarry – very steep technical single track with gators waiting for you to fall in.

Jamin in Florida.

Alafia State park – Great trail system with some very cool expert sections – probably the most popular local trail – it’s located east of I75 not far from Tampa and Balm Boyette a little closer in – they have some cool new stuff under construction.

Enough about the trails now what about Niners – don’t tell the locals I need all the advantages I can get - but niners kick butt in Florida.  I made a direct comparison between a Garry Fisher Sugar 429 and an Iron Horse 26er full suspension back in June – talk about hot and humid – come in the winter its much nicer.  Besides the hard phosphate rock there is plenty of soft sand and the niners have a huge advantage on the soft stuff - significantly lower pedal effort is required to power the bike – I found this out the hard way after a fast several mile run down a sandy road fighting the drag from the sixer nearly blew me up before I even got to the trail.  While riding back out on the niner this same road was a piece of cake.

With all the short steep stuff on these trails the niner’s big momentum advantage will carry you back up the other side of the big drops.  The niners also give you more traction for climbing the vertical stuff.  And lastly the trails here snake thru all these Palmetto bushes which cover the trails with big roots that the bigger tires just roll over.  I am planning a return trip this fall with my new Niner RIP – I can’t wait.

Alabama:

I stayed in the Montgomery area – not many trails but I did find one – The Swayback Bridge trail – I ran into a local and guess what he was riding a hard tail Niner and even better he had been to our web site to read reviews – amazing! The trail was pretty wet and somewhat a maze – It started down a sandy dirt road full of puddles and flat as flat, I was thinking what a bore. After awhile the trail started to follow some ditches which turned into ravines which converged onto a neat trail along the edge of a picturesque lake Jordan.  This trail ended up with a surprising amount of climbing including one super steep wet clay climb.  There is a lot of land here I believe that they could induce more flow into this trail but the climbs do give you a good workout – heck I might have been riding it in the wrong direction.  The big thing I noticed while riding this trail is how well my Niner handled the wet roots & rocks with hardly any sliding or spinning.  The big tires offer way more traction under slick conditions another big niner plus.

Georgia:

I found out that Georgia is a hot bed of mountain biking with a large number of cool trails.  I did not get to check out the mountainous part of the state but I did check out two trails one north and one east of Atlanta.

From Donn's trip to Geogia. If you can't read the sign it is the sign for the Olympic race course in Conyers GA

Chicopee Woods to the north was sweet – a hilly trail situated next to a golf course.  This SORBA trail is heavily used – all the bikes have packed the Georgia red clay down to a hard & fast surface.  My Niner just screamed on a section called Flying Squirrel (good name) – this fast high flow section is just what my Niner craves what a blast.  This swoopy go fast trail is the prefect combination for niners high momentum and traction advantages.  You got to check it out a really fun trail.

The Olympic trail in Conyers GA – east of Atlanta.  You can tell this trail was built for Olympic competition because they designed in plenty of steep kick butt climbs.  Unfortunately this trail got hit hard from all the recent flooding – a lot of it was washed but still very ride able.  The thing I really liked about this trail was the huge granite section across the road from the parking area – I love riding on granite it has such great traction except for the wet slime areas.  The big Niner tires are at home on the undulating granite surface smoothing it out and gripping it.  I played on the granite surface for quite some time playing on the many the ledges and drops what great fun.  I was also glad I was on a Niner while negotiating some of the rough and washed sections of the main trail where the bigger tires give you more control and confidence.  It was hot and this trail wore me out with all the climbing – not a great trail for flow but this trail is all about the Olympic experience and pushing the riders physical limits.

South Carolina:

The FATS trail system is located just over the state line from Augusta Georgia in South Carolinas Sumter National Forest.  I read a lot about this IMBA trail – the state of SC paid big bucks to have this trail system designed and built so I wanted to check it out.  Boy I’m glad I did and luckily I hooked up with a fast local rider that took me on a guided tour of this trail system.  This trail system has the most flow of any trail I ever ridden – I’m sure this is based on direction of travel but my local guide hooked me up on that.  My Niner RIP 9 had a big ring crank fest here.  The first trail we hit was called the Skinny – we averaged 14 mph on this screaming fast trail.  The Niners big Racing Ralf’s did a good job gripping thru the corners though I did experience some drifting on some of the corners that had a slight bit of sand on them – the big niner tires allow you to do that and maintain control.  Besides the cornering this trail becomes pretty technical when ridden at high speed – then the many bumps and ditches turn into jumps and G out’s that either want to fling you into the air or crush you.  The second trail we rode was called the Great Wall, this trail was more of the same it started with an extended down hill run that really pushed the limits - it had more climbing than the Skinny but I never shifted out of the big ring in fact that’s the secret of this trails system design, there is a lot of hill here but the trail builder follow the terrains contour line with extended low angle down hills & climbs – all fast big ring stuff – what fun!  The Niner really put me in the zone on this section which is where I passed my guide and cruised on at my own speed. I only got to ride about half of the trail here and I can’t wait to make a return trip to check out the rest.

F.A.T.S. Great Wall Loop from Donn Otte on Vimeo.

North Carolina:

Home base for 29eronline.com – we are located near the middle of the State.  North Carolina has plenty of great trails of all types from the mountains to the coast.  North Carolina is mainly known for the mountain trails – Nantahala / Pisgah / DuPont State Forest - all of these places are great but a long haul for us – NC is a big state.  Because mountain biking here has its roots in the metro areas where the riders live a number of sweet trails have been built near population centers.

My favorite mountain trail is DuPont State Forest – awesome waterfall views Bridal Veil Falls for one and some sweet single track - airport area with a big slick rock granite section – Cedar Rock & Big Rock - break out the granny gear.

Favorite Piedmont trails:  I had a lot to say about the FATS trail in SC – well we have one that tops that – Over the Mountain Victory Trail & Warriors Creek – right on the eastern edge of the Blue Ridge Mountains near Wilkesboro NC.  These super high flow trails were cut with a mini Ditch Witch bulldozer and designed and built by the local Brushy Mountain bike club on Corp of Engineers land surrounding Kerr Scott Lake – what makes these two trails so good, try imagining a bobsled run thru the mountains – huge banked turns and wall rides make this trail a blast to ride – Warriors Creek is the best but OTMVT is a close second. I love this trail – it’s so fun and fast and all of those great downhills have matching climbs!  I will say there is a learning curve to figure out how to ride the banking but my Niner RIP 9 nails it perfectly.  This is the ultimate niner trail the big momentum really kicks in here carrying speed way past where the sixers run out of steam.  My ultra stiff Fox fork with the QR15 axel threads the banked turns like a crotch rocket handling a curvy mountain road.

The National White Water Center trail – located not far from the airport in Charlotte NC, This is the ultimate multi million dollar adult playground.  Two man made rivers and one natural one supports kayaking and rafting / multiple climbing walls / a ropes course / a 1000’ zip line / restaurant & store. On top of that is the sweet 13 mile bike trail – this one gets heavily used because Charlotte is so big.  The red clay soil becomes brick like – hard and fast my Niner eats it up – tight and turny thru the Pine trees.  My favorite is the North trails along with the carpet loop and the toilet bowl loop.  An excellent trail so close to a major metro area – it cost $5 to park.

Other metro trails and eastern trails

Hobby Park – Winston Salem

Owls Roost & Wild Turkey – Greensboro

Harris Lake – Apex

Blue Clay – Wilmington

Bicycle Post trail – Greenville

Check Trianglemtb.com for Raleigh area trails

Uwharie near Troy

I would be remiss if I didn’t mention two Sanford area trails that I designed and built.

Governors Creek – a fast 6.5 course mile built for racing fun! Ride it both ways to get a good ride in.

San Lee Park – Jonesboro Fault Trail – unique geology brings mountain riding to the center of the state.  This trail is why I ride a full suspension 29er.  Nothing smooth here so don’t whine to me that it is to rough to ride - I ride a Niner RIP 9 so rough is good.  There are two technical black diamond sections the Gauntlet - single black diamond & Free Fall our 29er double black diamond torture track – Free Fall is a ¾ mile boulder garden for your pleasure.  Ride Free Fall at your own risk, - its not free ride stuff just throw you over the handlebars onto pointy rocks stuff for experienced cross country riders looking to hone there technical skills - body armor is not a bad idea.  Trail is a mix of white quartz rock & granite boulders.  29er tires smooth out the roots & rocks and there added traction eat up the loose quartz gravel climbs.

San Lee Park

Park has limited hours – get there 1.5 hours before closing – park is closed for some winter holidays – call first - 919-776-6221

If you have been reading up on the WFO9 reviewing that I have been doing, this is  my conclusion. It will be followed by Charlie's review and I am sure I will get feed back coming in from other riders.

I have commented on the climbing ability and the Niners stellar performance in rock gardens. This is my overall impression of the bike, pro's and cons and who should be on it.

The WFO9 is going to appeal to a particular type of rider. I would say most people fit into the category of the RIP9 as it is more versatile.  The WFO9 is a monster of a bike. Its ability to plow over things is one of the best I have ridden. The 29" wheels are one of the big reasons that this is true. Add 5.5 inches of travel and a slack(for a 29er) head angle and you have an explanation for it's ability.

In my opinion the WFO9 does not feel like a 6.5 inch travel 26er. It feels like a 5.5 29er. That is to say more capable of smoothing out trail obstacles. The wheel has less of a tendency to hang up on medium size irregularities. It is smoother and holds it speed far better then a 26" wheel bike of any travel range.  It does not cushion as well as longer travel 26" bikes. This is especially true when it comes to drops. This is not a weakness just a difference. Different tools for different jobs. I personally feel that the WFO9 holds a line better then 26" bikes with more travel. It plows over terrain and is less affected by large impacts due to terrain.

I bottom out the WFO9 even on 3-4 foot drops with the shock set at 25% sag.  If you are doing drops on the WFO9 invest in a coil shock with bottom out resistance.  I have not ridden it with a coil so really have nothing more to add. So for courses where there are alot of drops, or you are a drop hack like myself  this may be an issue.

To really appreciate the WFO9 you really need long steep down hills. It was a little hard to get the full impact of this bike on our local trails. It felt the most comfortable on the steepest terrain we have. The steering was precise and the handling got better the faster and braver  I got.

The WFO9 was a bit long for really aggressive handling.  Tighter berms caused me to feel very tall on the bike even with the seat 3" lower due to the crank brothers Joplin seat post I have been using on the WFO9. This feeling combined with the long wheel base and long top tube made the bike a little cumbersome in the turns.

I can't really wrap my head around this feeling. As long as you are able to get low on the bike this should not  be a problem. If I had the smaller size I would have had the saddle set at the same height and the Joplin would have  the same 3" drop. I don't know why but the sensation stayed with me. I would down sized the frame if I had to do it over. For the record I am 6' 1 3/4 inches tall with a 35" inseam with shoes on. That is an actual measurement not a jean size measure. Incidentally I would buy the Large RIP9. The RIP9 we tested was a medium.

Other notables. The rear Maxle axle broke. The lever part, I am not that hard on parts to actually brake the axle! Second and the only flaw with the WFO9 is the front derailleur hits the chain stay at full compression. I did not notice it too much while riding but it does happen.

So who should buy a WFO9? If you are a big person and are hard on equipment, ride demanding trails with lots of immovable obstacles  and want a kick but trail bike that won't hold you back, look no further. The WFO9 pedals so well and is so stiff/strong it's  really hard to beat.

If you are an aggressive rider who looks for the nastiest trails and are more inclined to bash through stuff then poke around the WFO9 would fit your riding style.

If you like to go really fast on rutted out rocky terrain or ride steep root infested trails with some drops This would be an excellent choice.

I see this as a really killer Super D racing bike. It could  handle a DH course also. I would have to caution though it would not be my choice for true DH riding. In the event I was going to go a couple of times a year I would not hesitate to ride the WFO9.

Who should not. If you are timing your local XC loop and are trying to shave time off every time you ride. If climbing is one of the priorities in buying a bike(if it is I imagine that type of rider is not reading this.) If you ride tight XC  trails with lots of twists and turns and if you want to pump berms and really like to get aggressive in corners. If you like to manual and pump every depression in the trail this also would not be my first choice.

In conclusion the WFO9 is a great bike for the right rider. The frame was nearly flawless and clearly over whelmed the Marzocchi fork. It is reliable, predictable and bomber. If that is your definition of "All-Mountain and sounds like the right tool for your trails buy the WFO9.

Keep visiting 29eronline for more feed back about the Pivot Mach 429. The rest of the comments will be condensed and more in the style of report cards. Thank you Donn Otte for your video. 

One note to Donn's video. 4 inches of travel is about the Industry norm. Big  travel 29ers  are in the 5.5 -6".

 There are a lot of people that feel that if you have 29" wheels you don't need full suspension. My response is; The same rules apply to 29ers as 26" wheel mountain bikes. Suspension adds cushion on drops, increases traction while climbing, takes the edge off larger impacts, and overall increases control and comfort over rough terrain.  Larger wheels do not replace suspension. If you ride a 26" suspension bike at least give a 29er dually a try.

The Turner Sultan has arrived! Turner Bikes has done it again.

This bike speaks to me. It has 120mm of travel and is designed for a 120mm travel fork. Everything about this bike seams to be built to ride HARD.

In the initial post I don’t want to start describing how geometry will cause the Sultan to ride. In truth I don’t really ever want to talk about it. No individual number makes or breaks the way a bike rides. It is the sum of all the numbers together. So, I really don’t want to speculate. We at 29eronline will let the trail tell us all we need to know.

Its to early to comment on the very little riding on the Turner I have done.

[Show as slideshow]

12►

MSRP:$75.85 each

Weight:claimed 580 grams Actual: 580 grams

Casing Width Claimed: 2.25 Actual:2.188

Casing Height:2.050

My initial reaction to these tires was that these would be the tires to measure all tires. They were light, good volume, and fast rolling. 

They seated up nicely on the rim, and with the usual 2 1/2 scoops of Stan's No Tube Sealant, they converted to tubeless easily.  After sitting overnight, they were flat.  I re-inflated them, went for a ride and they've been fine since.   FYI:  These are not officially tubeless tires, so proceed at your own risk.  We at 29er online have had great success with this setup.  

The Racing Ralph's are not rated as a wet condition tire.  I noticed that on my first muddy climb, that I was spinning out but still making progress.  Since the tire isn't rated as a wet condition tire, I thought for sure that it would be packed with mud, but was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't.  

 Although I would not say they were "good " for muddy rides, over all, for a tire that isn't rated for muddy rides, they did quite well. However,  they are still not my first choice. 

After some time on the Schwable  tires I am seeing some weaknesses .  They are crappy on wet roots, and are not up to par on dry ones either . I eventually got used to their manners on the dry ones but the wet ones are a little scary. Even on dry roots ,if you don't hit them square ( not on an angle) , be prepared for them to kick  to the sides. Steer with your hips and eventually they grab . 

To be fair to the Racing Ralphs,  not many tires are good in wet roots . I felt like this is worth noting . The good news is that on wet roots this tire is predictable . The bad news is they are predictably bad .

O.k. to  reiterate these are not wet condition tires ,however not many riders I know only ride in box recommended conditions .

The Racing Ralphs are a little light duty for real rock Gardens . I cased my rim in our local rock garden.  The traction was fine, but they just did not have enough meat to protect the rims .

I noticed on some of our off camber up hill rocks, the tires slid while I was powering over .  They were very predictable on these types of maneuvers . I rode the same feature with Panaracer Rampage 2.3 tires and really didn't notice much of a difference . To me that says a lot about this tires performance .NICE.

 The real strength of these tires are the weight to performance .  These are light and fast rolling .  I feel like I can confidently say that in the intended condition,  these are nothing short of excellent .  It goes without saying that if you compare these to a 2.3 ,  800 gram aggressive tread tire, they don't have quite  as much traction .  Conversely, compared to a 1.9 semi slick tire ,they don't pedal as well . However, I don't feel like you sacrifice that much .  The happy compromise is well worth it to me . I understand this review can seem confusing.  My opinion is that this tire is excellent for it's intended purpose, but if you ride in wet conditions, look elsewhere.

So the verdict is ,if you are a cross country, finesse rider (no steam rolling rock gardens)  , ride in dry or   

tacky soil , are weight conscious, and don't want to compromise weight for traction and speed (who does?), then the Schwable tire is a worthy tread for your bike. 

In our about page we said that we were going to be testing our bikes with the same parts kits . So here is the list of our 29eronline test kits.

Fork: Fox f29 with standard drop outs (9mm qr )  in both 100mm  and 120mm. We will be using some with 15qr axles.

Headset: Cane Creek 110.  This is 1 1/8  size.

Handlebars: Truvative Holtzfeller 15mm rise 27 1/4 inch wide

Stem: Thomson x4  31.8mm clamp diameter with no rise

Seatpost: Thomson Elite

Saddle: Testers will use their own . I am using a Sella Italia flite gel flow. Charlie uses the Fizik arione.

Cranks : Shimano SLX 175mm includes bottom bracket

Pedals: Testers personal set

Cassette: Shimano SLX 11-34 9speed

Rear Derailer: Sram x9 long cage 9 speed

Front Derailer: Shimano SLX

Shifters: Sram x9

Chain:Sram PC 971

Wheels- Hubs: DT Swiss 240s with center lock rotors

Rims: Stans Arch 32 hole

Spokes: Dt 14/15 g

Nipples: alloy

Brakes: Shimano SLX with 180mm centerlock rotors front and rear

Grips: ODI lock ons

Tires: Testers preference . We have a variety of tires we are testing . More will be posted about this later.

chia-rock1 Video

In a nut shell,  the Ventana is very good. Nothing super notable.There  is a bit of movement in the rear shock (bob) while pedaling but nothing annoying. The rear shock that comes stock on this frame is a Fox float R. I would like to see a Fox Float RP23 come stock on a bike in this price point .($1995.00 )Edit...Since I bought this frame I have since talked to Ventana.  The 2009 El Rey  frames are now sold stock with a Fox rp23 high volume air can at the current retail price of $2295.00.

If the slight bobbing in the rear shock bothers you ,its very easy to just slow down the rebound on the shock . To completely eliminate the bobbing you have to slow down the rebound to a point that I felt like compromised the down hill ability . As noted above the slight movement wasnt annoying and really is no worse then almost every other dual suspension bike on the market.

I would say the weakness of most 29ers is in very  slow speed technical riding ,like trialsing over sequences of rocks . that's not to say it cant be done ,its just a little harder then a 26" wheel bike .

The El Rey is no exception to this .  However in tight sweeping switchbacks it really wasn't an issue . I found that the El Rey did great in tight twisty trails . I did not notice much of a  difference compared  to the many 26"wheeled bikes I have ridden .

This frame was designed around a 4" travel fork. The initial set up I used was a 4" travel (100mm)  fork. When the bike is set up this way ,It handles very neutral.

When climbing very steep hills I never experienced the front end getting light.  It steers very predictable. If any word describes this bike I would say predictable is it .

The only way I can describe the predictable  label is imagine an old friend . Its reliable and its easy to get used to. It really doesn't surprise you .  Its comfortable but not really exciting . (I really hope none of my old friends are reading this. ouch)

The above comments sound a little negative . It really isn't .  If you are the type of rider that likes to hop on your bike and just ride, not thinking about your equipment , the El Rey is your kind of bike.

As far as performance in technical climbs,  pedal strikes have been fairly frequent.  Not enough to make the bike unenjoyable,  but enough that when I am climbing technical terrain,  I am aware of it constantly.   As long as you accommodate for it,  it isn't that much of a problem.

To me,  this is not a plush bike.  It does not soak up all of the trail.  It handle hard hits adequately.  Occasionally it feels like there may be a compression spike.  When it happens, it is jarring to your body.  I believe that a higher volume air shock would solve the problem. (see edit above ,according to Ventana this is one of the reasons for the shock upgrade ).

This bike really shines in the stability department.  On small roots and rocks,  it motors over with little hesitation.  Contrary to popular opinion, it still rides like a four inch travel bike.

Many people say that with 29 inch wheels,  it feels like you have an extra inch of suspension.  I did not find this to be true.   While it is a different ride than a 26 inch wheel bike, it still rides like a four inch travel cross country frame.

While descending, the bike is sure footed and confident.  Even when the trail points downhill, I prefer a four  inch fork (100mm) on this bike.   As of lately, I have been riding it with a 120 mm fork(4.7 in).  Even on the downhills, the 120mm travel fork causes the bike to steer poorly.

Normally when you put a longer travel fork on a bike, it will descend with more confidence, due to a slacker head angle.  Frankly, that did not happen with the El Rey.  I washed the front end out on two descents that I have never had a problem with.  The first time resulted in a crash.  I figured I was just off my game.  The second time I was trying to turn, but the bike seemed to ignore me.  This is the first time I have experienced that on any bike.  FYI, I have owned many bikes.

The long travel fork didn't really effect climbing much.  I had to use a little more of a forward riding position but only on the steepest climbs.

Overall, there were more negatives to riding this bike with a 120mm fork.  I would stay away from anything but a 100mm fork.

As far as the rear suspension, it's not harsh or plush, it's just there.  I definitely felt fresher at the end of my rides.  I also feel like I have more control, but it's not really noticeable on the trail.

I have the rear shock set with the recommended 25% sag with fairly fast rebound and I have never been wowed by the rear suspension.

That being said, I have never been disappointed.  One thing I do like is the end of the travel feels very progressive.  I have never bottomed out the shock.  I Have come close off of a drop on my local loop but never completely.

Overall this is a very good bike.  It does everything very well and nothing bad, but it did not rock my world .  Frankly, I expected more from this bike.  As more bikes come through, I will have more to compare to.  As of today, if you're looking for a neutral handling bike with excellent craftmanship, you'll like this frame.

chia-rock